HEALTH FORUM

...are a bloody disgrace.

Our local PFI no longer can:-
*fulfil its function as an A&E dept.
*work as a full obstetric unit, and has put expectant mothers (& their
child) lives at risk through a midwife-led service.

Our local PFI has:-
*sacked all the porters and taken them on again as contractors on short-term
contracts.
*started charging for everything from flower vases to wheelchairs for
patients.

Our local PFI:-
*employs auxiliaries to do many RGN functions.
*stops all unsocial hours/night work for 90% of staff of E grade and
above.

Little wonder that nurses are leaving the NHS. If theres no care from those
who create policy, how do they expect it from those at the front line?
Theres an eastern saying; dirty downstream, comes from dirty upstream.

Tom

So, its just a development of the trend started by the Trust initiative?
Pay staff less for doing more. Charging patients for *extras* is a bit of a
new one, I have to say.
I agree - its shocking and extremely worrying. Whats happening to this
once-great country of ours? And under a government that still has the word
Labour in its title.

Gary
A S Thomas wrote in message
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A S Thomas wrote in message
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id like to know how being a PFI has affected services provided by NHS
staff and comissioned by NHS purchasers ?

many A+E departments havew bene downgraded as they cannot meet the
standards required and keep medicla staff hours under control, ditto for
obstetric units .

A midwife led unit is a not an inferior service , just a different one.
childbirth is a natural process and for the majority of mothers a midwife
led unit is more than adequate


this is not confined to PFIs, however they should be TUPEd


charging patients or the NHS ?


this is par for the course in the NHS if some people are to be believed.
Paying unsocial hours for senior staff is ongoing topic in most hospitals



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Its patently obvious if you have a system where, to balance the books and
pay back the huge 25 year mortgage, cuts are put in place. Our local A&E was
once a fully functional unit. Now it is a local emergency service, where
anything life-threatening is shipped off to the nearest big hospital. This
can mean a 30 minute plus journey ...and you know what the consequences are.

This has absolutely nothing to do with standards. My A&E dept (I once worked
there) was a centre of excellence, orthopeadics and teaching.



Yes, but when complications arrise that require and obstetrician, then its
ditto what Ive already written about downgraded A&E services. Read this
article:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health medical/story.jsp?storyR4649

Yes, but as you will know, this only has to be honoured for a year.

Re: paying for vases, etc. this has been introduced as a charge for
patients relatives/visitors. Calling a porter (on a separate contract to
that of porters working outpatients/wards, etc.) to bring a wheelchair can
incur a charge for the patient.

You cant even park your car close to the main entrance to unload patients
with mobility problems for fear of having your car clamped. My wife has MS
and we had to walk 50 yards over the most poorly designed set of walkways.

Like another poster suggested, what has happened to the NHS. Blair hasnt
even attempted to patch up the destruction wreaked by Thatcher ...and if
anything, has made the situation worse through the imposition of performance
targets as a carrot/stick for extra funding. A complete disgrace. Most
countries envy our system, yet we have a government that is allowing it to
die slowly and painfully.

Tom

A S Thomas wrote in message
news:R53yc.243$sj7.8@newsfe6-win...

> Like another poster suggested, what has happened to the NHS. Blair hasnt
> even attempted to patch up the destruction wreaked by Thatcher ...and if
> anything, has made the situation worse through the imposition of
performance
> targets as a carrot/stick for extra funding. A complete disgrace. Most
> countries envy our system, yet we have a government that is allowing it to
> die slowly and painfully.
>
> Tom
>

Absolutely. What is happening to our public services in general is a
disgrace. The way things are going you might as well top yourself if you are
old or chronically sick and not very rich in the not-too-distant future. We
were the envy of most of the world, but were becoming a laughing stock.

Gary

A S Thomas wrote in message
news:R53yc.243$sj7.8@newsfe6-win...
are.

can you afford to provide severa lmore EM consultants, 24 hour EM middle
grade cover

ditto for anaesthesia, General Surgery and Orthopaedics ?

there is little point in running an A+Eservice without adequate middle grade
and consultat cover in Emeregency medicine, and witohut the full range of
medical, surgical, theatre and critical care support, including provision
of middle grades and consultants on 24/7 basis

so keep it an an A+E , and still ship anything life threatening off as a
secondary transfer, with a further delay to process in the locla A+E dept
, wait for a secondary transfer ....


and this is 100% available in the larger units all the time ? its not many
people suffer in big units waiting for the availability of senior
obstetricians becasue they are otherwise engaged

both the rationalisation of A+E services and the changes in Obstetric
services are also related to the requirement that Trainee Medicla Staff
should be appropriately supervised by very senior trainees ( senior SpRs)
or career grade staff ( AssSp and Consultant)


this is not a PFIU issue there are plenty of hospitals wich are not PFI and
have suffered the same issues, a number of whom have sacked the FM
contractors and gone back to in house management

and why not thiese are not core services - they do not affect the care of
patients, they are sundary services

again nothing to do with PFI and everything to do with the needs of land
planning and dealing with the thoughtless pillocks who consider that signs
dont apply to them


the NHS has achieved an awful lot and continues to do so , in the current
times those who moan are those who want treatmetnt without evidence basis ,
or those who want the taxpayer to subsidise quality of life ( which from a
philosophical point of view , could be done in an extremley ageist way -
prioritise those who are below pension age by age on the basis of their
potnetial economic return) or purely cosmetic procedures


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Some good points Martyn. But its the old failed New Labour arguments. Im
afraid that even little things such as charging for vases (and in some cases
charging rental for WRVS shops) give the impression that the NHS is being
ground down in the waves of private enterprise. They may not directly affect
patient care, but if your a health care provider (like many on this group)
you will understand that sapping effect even small things like this have on
morale -both for patients and staff.

A&E units indeed have to justify their existence in terms of there being
consultant/specialist cover ..but heres the rub: its obvious that
consultants are spending more of their time performing private work than
being available for the system that trained, funded and paid them. Why
should the NHS have to look to pay more to ensure that consultants are on
hand to ensure back-up should anything go wrong with A&E/maternity, etc.? In
my books, they wield too much power & call the shots to ensure they feather
their nests with not so much as a squeak from a pathetic government that is
too terrified to change their contracts to tie them exclusively to NHS work.

As an Occ Health Advisor, Im sick of hearing about lengthy NHS waiting
lists for orthopaedic, psychiatric, etc. referral. The waiting lists are a
mirage. they dont exist ...simply because if you pull out a chequebook you
can be seen tomorrow by the same specialist you would normally have to wait
anything up to 3 years to see.

The PFI mess simply magnifies the problem. With a huge 25 years mortgage to
pay back to large construction companies, Trust managers are simply not
going to pay for higher ranking medical staffs availability. Result:
consultants doing more private work, nurses moving into the private sector,
and for anyone who cant afford private medical insurance, a sinking NHS
with a crap-standard hospital serving huge communities of working class
people. We deserve better. Thats why Blairs getting a kicking ...he has
betrayed everyone. We expect this from the Tories, but not from a party that
supposedly places public services above everything else. And dont forget
that Gordon Brown is Labours main architect for PFI ...gambling the
countrys resources on the never-never.

Tom

A S Thomas wrote in message
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the public take liberties with the NHS becasue they dont realise the true
value of it

if we changed the tax and benefits systems so a health premiumj
replaced the hidden funding in tax and NI people might realise the true
cost / value of the nHS


irrelevant to A+E consultants, the private work an A+E specialist can
undertake is limited to the odd bit of medico-legal report writing and event
cover - in doing so diverting the expense of the work fro mthe event to the
event organiser rather than the NHS

the NHS does not train Helath Professionals, the government does so through
the universities and the military. while NHS and private healthcare
environments are used as placements they are paid quite handsomely for
this.


One in one and one i ntwo cover rotas are no longr desirable for
consultants, but Traine medicla staff cannot work without COnsultant support
and supervision, non training grades aparts from AssSp dont allways attract
high quality applicants, unless its recycled SHOs filling gaps in middle
grade rotas in the hope of staying on when an SpR job comes up.

work.

No Other group of health professionals is tied to NHS only working , despite
many of them having until very recently ( less than 15 years i nthe case of
RNs and less than 5 i nthe case Of ODPs) been trained BY the NHS , FOr the
NHS .


who is working outside his /her contracted NHS hours.


yeah whatever , onvieinently ignoring that NHS services are com missioned by
PCTS and other service commissioners.

realistically i think youve just realised something many of us have known
since before 1997 , New Labour have attempted to out tory the tories
without the benvolence and slightly condescending patriarchy of the tories .
the current Uk parliametary Labour party are not a socialist party


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